vpFREE2 Forums

$1 FPDW

#1

We have to make a decision. Do those inthe group mutually help each other or not? If there is only one machine (such as there used to be at Primm($1) or one 25 cent machine (such as at Slots-Of_fun) I can easily understand not posting about it as what's the point as chances are it might be in use, and even by a tourist, Yes, Surprise, Tourists like good games, too. They may not play well but they like getting 25 coins instead of 20 coins on a wild 4K. But if there is an adequate number of machines, what's the problem?

I realize that are those in the group who will burn out an opportunity and ignore the rest of us, but that is hard to stop. Some do not care for anything but how many dollars they can make today. The casinos are stupid in this way, too. As I saw in one of the VP books, would you rather make $25 an hour indefinitely or $40 or more per hour just for a few days? If I remember the exact source I would give all credit, but honestly do not remember where I read it.

If we don;t help each other with good information,then what's the purpose of the group?

···

From: "nudge51" <nudge51@lvcm.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: $1 FPDW
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:49:34 -0700

From: "sarahmvp" <sarahmvp@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: $1 FPDW

>has 27 new, fast, coinless slant tops
> in the northwest corner of this neighborhood
> casino that have fifty cent and $1 FPDW, 100.6% >Jokers,10/7 DB and 9/6
Jacks.

I am just curious as to why you thought that it was necessary or prudent to
announce publicly to millions of people, most of whom could care less, the
location of these games. Do you even play them at the $ level? What were you
trying to achieve with your proclamation? This $30.00 an hour play was being
fairly well respected and protected by the few that knew and had the
required bankroll to play it. Was your intention to hurt people that you
don't even know that were currently playing the game? Inquiring minds would
like to know?
                                                                  Nudge
P.S. On June 1st, my wife got her first, and now thanks to you, her last $
royal on these. She was so excited that she was physically shaking. Thank
you for guaranteeing that will never happen again.
P.P.S. I also have information from a reliable source that if you appear to
be pro, no not professional, just proficient to a high degree, casino
personnel will ask you to leave.

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

#2

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pesach kremen" <royalflush2222@h...>
wrote:

We have to make a decision. Do those inthe group mutually help
each other or not?

The decision to withhold information by some has already been made,
it is too bad.

#3

There will always be givers and takers. As one who both gives and takes, I will answer direct questions honestly, and will supply information that is of general help to all. I will disclose opportunities that I believe are good to those that are interested.
I do not feel an obligation to disclose everything I know to the entire world, especially if I believe that such disclosure may tend to destroy the thing I am talking about, if and only if it is something I want to protect. I will never announce things that I have not seen personally, and I will not disclose things that are given to me in confidence.
I feel that this is a reasonable attitude.
To announce that I know something great but I ain't telling is not something that I would ever contemplate.

These are just my feelings on the subject and I am sure that everyone else on this board has a position that they can just as easily justify.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: pesach kremen
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: $1 FPDW

  We have to make a decision. Do those inthe group mutually help each other
  or not?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

testpro wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pesach kremen" <royalflush2222@h...>
wrote:
> We have to make a decision. Do those inthe group mutually help
>each other or not?

The decision to withhold information by some has already been made,
it is too bad.

This is another question that arises from time to time. Should the
location of excptional machines be publicly reported to the whole
group? This V.P. group is similaer in nature to my fly fishing
friends. These fishermen will help each other out in regards to the
type of rods or lures to use, and will even spend a great deal of
time, and some times money, in teaching kids and novices the ins and
outs of flyfishing. They share a lot of valuble information with each
other. One thing that they are not expected to share, except in the
most general terms, are the exact locations of their favorite fishing
spots. It works for them and fosters a healthy competion throughout
the group. I think we should do the same here. We really shouldn't
expect the pros and semi-pros of this group to routinely give away the
specific locations of machines from which they garnish an income. So
lets enjoy the playing expertise that they are willing to share, and
find our own best fishing holes. Dick M.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Richard Mckenna wrote:

We really shouldn't expect the pros and semi-pros of this group to
routinely give away the specific locations of machines from which
they garnish an income. So lets enjoy the playing expertise that they
are willing to share, and find our own best fishing holes. Dick M.

Dick, let's hope the sterling logic of your post shines through.

If I may add to your thoughts ... the issue here is a relatively
common sense one that is applicable to all, be it pro or recreational
player. Unfortunately, it's common sense to the seasoned player, but
to the "newbie" it's reasoning that typically only comes with experience.

The ultimate goal is to preserve any good play for all who happen upon
it. That dictates that exceptional plays not be shared.

We know the perspective of the typical slot manager -- they put in
good plays to attract players to their casino and rely on the fact
that the average player isn't terribly skilled -- giving them an edge
on even fairly positive games.

When they find that a bank of machines is being beat upon heavily, in
some cases by a few for 8 hours a day or more, and they begin seeing
some faces every day, then they know that they may have offered too
much of a good thing. And if they have an ounce of wit about
themselves, they know that a good number of the new players have the
game down cold and the casino's edge is slipping away.

It's a safe bet that the game's days are numbered at this point. So
the issue becomes whether it's better to share a play in a spirit of
generosity and threaten it's continued existence, or keep it close to
the chest in hopes that those who currently enjoy it will continue to
have the opportunity. The answer should be pretty clear cut.

What may not be clear to some is what plays qualify as an
"exceptional" play. There are two criterion.

The first is that it's not readily found elsewhere. (Which, of
course, is why there's some enthusiasm for sharing it.)

The second is that the EV to the player is in excess of $15-20/hr.

This distinguishes why the $1 FPDW play is best not disclosed here,
but why $.25 AA at LVH can be freely discussed.

- Harry

#6

Not necessarily. You see and meet plenty of players who consider $10/hr tax
free/problem free a great deal , and they will not reveal the location of
these machines no matter what! True, deals that exceed $20/hr are
exceptional deals - but with what volatility, what is the bankroll required,
if they stop the offer early what's the risk of ruin ? Local pros would
never consider the Bellagio a great deal with their 9/6 jacks ( .67% cash
back on special offer) . But what if a visitor mailer also included RFB ,
and $500 in free play?
My point Harry is this - what's a "great play" to you may not be a "great
play" for me- its not cut and dry.

···

The second is that the EV to the player is in excess of $15-20/hr.

This distinguishes why the $1 FPDW play is best not disclosed here,
but why $.25 AA at LVH can be freely discussed.

#7

What is cut and dry is the following...
Is this a play that I love and feel needs protecting ?
Is it common knowledge ?
The AA at the Hilton may be a good play but it is common knowledge.
If I know of a mistake being made on point accumulation on one bank of machines in a good casino, or a lone high value play on one machine where the slot mechanic set a game at %101 percent and it is the only one in a great place, I'm not telling any but my closest friends ( and will make them swear to a blood oath first).

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: tomflush
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: $1 FPDW

  Not necessarily. You see and meet plenty of players who consider $10/hr tax
  free/problem free a great deal , and they will not reveal the location of
  these machines no matter what! True, deals that exceed $20/hr are
  exceptional deals - but with what volatility, what is the bankroll required,
  if they stop the offer early what's the risk of ruin ? Local pros would
  never consider the Bellagio a great deal with their 9/6 jacks ( .67% cash
  back on special offer) . But what if a visitor mailer also included RFB ,
  and $500 in free play?
  My point Harry is this - what's a "great play" to you may not be a "great
  play" for me- its not cut and dry.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Albert Pearson wrote:

I'm not telling any but my closest friends ( and will make them swear
to a blood oath first).

But you'll certainly understand if they decide that they can trust it
to their "closest" friends, no?

- H.