vpFREE2 Forums

Revel's Loss Rebate

Plus you could take junkets to other casinos on dates good for the freeplay at Revel. There were articles about people with tons of unredeemed Harrah's points, time to use them at Showboat which is next door. Spirit Airlines is almost so cheap you can day trip from certain cities. Revel may not give you a room comp but if you lost 100K it is likely the other card benefits would make it a cheap trip.

My question is why did you mention $150K. If someone did walk in and hit 100K on the first $25 pull, why would you not just leave and go to the Borgata or some other place? Once you are ahead doesn't a loss rebate lose value?

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
gamblers from Macau.

The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment

I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.

One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.

The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.

Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A lot of people are wishing on stars. What's to stop them from taking out every VP machine over $1 on Sunday night?
Nothing.
They are NOT (for long anyways) going to let people take what is essentially a freeroll at a $100K royal. One way or another it's not happening. This is a joint whose $5 slots returned an average of 89.5% over the last 4 months.
You have been warned.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:

Peole will tons of points w TR will spend them to stay at Showboat or people will alternate AC junkets and sneak into Revel and bang out their freeplay. Leave at 150k? If you hit a rf @25$ your first pull why not lea ve? As you pull ahead doesnt that lower the value of a rebate?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:>
> NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
> weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
> run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
> at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
> can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
> justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
> gamblers from Macau.
>
> The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment
>
> I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.
>
> One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.
>
> The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.
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If you hit a royal on the first hand, seems like you should call it a night, even though most gamblers will probably try to go for another royal. On the other extreme, if you are down $99,875 and then hit a royal, you should probably continue on in search of second royal. Where's the inflection point? If the royal puts you at least $50,000 ahead, quit, otherwise continue on? There might be some strategy modifications was well. Royal only strategy:?

5RF
4RF
3RF
QJs
KQs, KJs
AKs, AQs, AJs
JTs, QTs, KTs, ATs
J, Q, K, A
draw 5

Something like Royal Deuces might be an interesting game to play.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:

Plus you could take junkets to other casinos on dates good for the freeplay at Revel. There were articles about people with tons of unredeemed Harrah's points, time to use them at Showboat which is next door. Spirit Airlines is almost so cheap you can day trip from certain cities. Revel may not give you a room comp but if you lost 100K it is likely the other card benefits would make it a cheap trip.

My question is why did you mention $150K. If someone did walk in and hit 100K on the first $25 pull, why would you not just leave and go to the Borgata or some other place? Once you are ahead doesn't a loss rebate lose value?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
>
> NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
> weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
> run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
> at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
> can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
> justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
> gamblers from Macau.
>
> The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment
>
> I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.
>
> One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.
>
> The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.
>
> Bob
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I was thinking some sort of progressive betting stratgey based on a target average income per hour boosted by cumulative loss.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

If you hit a royal on the first hand, seems like you should call it a night, even though most gamblers will probably try to go for another royal. On the other extreme, if you are down $99,875 and then hit a royal, you should probably continue on in search of second royal. Where's the inflection point? If the royal puts you at least $50,000 ahead, quit, otherwise continue on? There might be some strategy modifications was well. Royal only strategy:?

5RF
4RF
3RF
QJs
KQs, KJs
AKs, AQs, AJs
JTs, QTs, KTs, ATs
J, Q, K, A
draw 5

Something like Royal Deuces might be an interesting game to play.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@> wrote:
>
> Plus you could take junkets to other casinos on dates good for the freeplay at Revel. There were articles about people with tons of unredeemed Harrah's points, time to use them at Showboat which is next door. Spirit Airlines is almost so cheap you can day trip from certain cities. Revel may not give you a room comp but if you lost 100K it is likely the other card benefits would make it a cheap trip.
>
> My question is why did you mention $150K. If someone did walk in and hit 100K on the first $25 pull, why would you not just leave and go to the Borgata or some other place? Once you are ahead doesn't a loss rebate lose value?
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
> >
> > NOTI wrote: Most likely they will, unless they have something better to do that
> > weekend. Some will try teaming up on the freeplay collection, but they
> > run the risk of getting caught. If you get unlucky and max out the loss
> > at $100,000, divided by 20 that's $5,000/week. Unless you know where you
> > can get more than $5,000 freeplay on a weekend, you can probably
> > justify a flight from almost anywhere. Revel might actually steal some
> > gamblers from Macau.
> >
> > The week there ends something like Sunday midnight and begins again at Monday 8 a.m. So if you can stay over on Sunday nights, it's 10 trips, not 20, from August 11 through December 8. Even so, it's a big commitment
> >
> > I'm not going to fly there from Vegas --- but it would be easy for me to justify the 10 trips from anywhere east of the Mississippi --- and a few places slightly west of there. This is HUGE. It would be easy for me to play my free play and leave. And while I was in town, play a few other places now that I know I'm going to be back to pick up mailers from those places as well. (Forget the mailers at Revel --- those will be $0 during the promotion in order to pay for the promotion.) This promotion will likely bring in business to several other casinos in town as well. Revel thinks their promotion will hurt other casinos. I think otherwise.
> >
> > One of the main reasons for most of us non-locals not to play in AC is that the typical player reward system there is based on many repeat visits. This 10-to-20 scheduled visits to Revel gets around that drawback. Once you're around this drawback, several casinos in AC have good (games + mailers) combinations. So you play them while the Revel promotion is going on --- and come mid December, stop going to AC.
> >
> > The reason people are talking about the losses instead of the win is that you have to be sure your brakes work well before you go speeding away. Yes the intelligent stopping place goal is to win $150,000 or so before you quit. But there is a large random element and many people will lose whatever they can afford to lend the casino for 5 months. You cannot know beforehand whether you will be one of the winners or the losers, so you need to be sure you are prepared to deal with the multiple trips before you undertake the promotion.
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It just kills me to have to do a little bragging here. Not! I said it first, folks. LMAO!

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Slot operations better hope their cardreaders are foolproof.

>
> Slot operations better hope their cardreaders are foolproof.
>
>

The card manipulation has come to light. It's brilliant but simple. Play Ultimate X until you have multipliers of 4X or higher on every hand. Then pull the card and play the next hand. It creates false losses,

Stop basking in you foresight.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

> >
> > Slot operations better hope their cardreaders are foolproof.
> >
> >
The card manipulation has come to light. It's brilliant but simple. Play Ultimate X until you have multipliers of 4X or higher on every hand. Then pull the card and play the next hand. It creates false losses,

Okay, I'll give up. Just after I take one more laugh at them idiots.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:

Stop basking in you foresight.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Slot operations better hope their cardreaders are foolproof.
> > >

Stop basking in your foresight.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

> >
> > Slot operations better hope their cardreaders are foolproof.
> >
> >
The card manipulation has come to light. It's brilliant but simple. Play Ultimate X until you have multipliers of 4X or higher on every hand. Then pull the card and play the next hand. It creates false losses,

If a dollar video poker player is not drawing any heat then tell him to jump to a $25 slot and see what happens.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Someone told me (unconfirmed), that Harrah's computer algorithms will put together card sessions to wipe out this Ultimate X strategy.
Personally, I start playing without a card when I have a significant percentage of 10-12Xs...and then continue playing without my card until a winning streak ends.

Mitchell

···

On Jul 5, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Mickey wrote:

The card manipulation has come to light. It's brilliant but simple. Play Ultimate X until you have multipliers of 4X or higher on every hand. Then pull the card and play the next hand. It creates false losses,

I imagine that "someone" is pulling the info out of their rear, frankly. (In any case, I would have thought it best not to discuss specifics of this tactic ... had imagined that Mickey's ego was sufficiently intact that he wouldn't have come forward with a "lookee what I came up with" post)

btw, re that strategy of yours ... jumping denom anytime you sense you have a "streak" going is an integral part, no? (or would that risk abruptly terminating said streak?)

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mitchell Tsai <tsai@...> wrote:

Someone told me (unconfirmed), that Harrah's computer algorithms will
put together card sessions to wipe out this Ultimate X strategy.
Personally, I start playing without a card when I have a significant
percentage of 10-12Xs...and then continue playing without my card
until a winning streak ends.

Mitchell

On Jul 5, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Mickey wrote:
> The card manipulation has come to light. It's brilliant but simple.
> Play Ultimate X until you have multipliers of 4X or higher on every
> hand. Then pull the card and play the next hand. It creates false
> losses,
>

I did the match bonus coin 3 times last week and they did return my flyer after making a note on it that they had matched it.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "barboop_11229" <Boopsahoy@...> wrote:

The most interesting part of the promotion to me is matching freeplay. Ill be in AC 4 days and have between 150-200 slot dollars each day from Taj-if they match it each day thats an extra 6-800 bucks.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
> No way in hell are they going to allow you to sit there at a high limit machine and essentially take a free roll at a $20K or $100K royal.
> I would STRONGLY advise anyone not to throw big money at this. They WILL find a way to weasel out of it.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
> >
> > Revel, in Atlantic City, is offering players 100% of their slot and video poker losses from July 1-31 up to $100,000. The rebate comes in the form of free play over 20 or so visits.
> >
> >
> > This is a HUGE player-friendly promotion. Munchkin and I would like to talk about it on the air next Thursday evening (that show will be taped Tuesday afternoon due to our guest's availability).
> >
> >
> > If there is somebody who can take a picture of the rules and send it to gamblingwithanedge@ (or post them on vpFREE) it will help us in our analysis. Maybe it's for new members only? Maybe certain machines are excluded? Maybe . . ? Looking at the rules will help us figure it out.
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I only posted it here after it became public information vis a vis WoV. But I do admit to some vanity here. I haven't been in the types of casinos you guys play for almost 7 years. Everything is totally different here. But I was extremely confident that, with hundreds of different kinds of games available these days, someone would find a way to beat the cardreaders at Revel. And I was right. Whether they get the rebates is another question.

http://www.uspoker.com/blog/players-accuse-revel-of-not-honoring-100000-loss-rebate-promotion/4647/

We'll see if the bigger news outlets pick up on the story.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

had imagined that Mickey's ego was sufficiently intact that he wouldn't have come forward with a "lookee what I came up with" post)

I would think anyone that came forward to publicly complain to a governmental agency and is a big VP player would be nervous about a having a high profile. I don't think this will jump to the mainstream press. I would not consider uspoker.com on the same level as the NYT, WSJ or Washington Post. I doubt this story will make it to the Huffington Post.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@> wrote:
>
> had imagined that Mickey's ego was sufficiently intact that he wouldn't have come forward with a "lookee what I came up with" post)
>
>
I only posted it here after it became public information vis a vis WoV. But I do admit to some vanity here. I haven't been in the types of casinos you guys play for almost 7 years. Everything is totally different here. But I was extremely confident that, with hundreds of different kinds of games available these days, someone would find a way to beat the cardreaders at Revel. And I was right. Whether they get the rebates is another question.

http://www.uspoker.com/blog/players-accuse-revel-of-not-honoring-100000-loss-rebate-promotion/4647/

We'll see if the bigger news outlets pick up on the story.

Being that there were already people scamming $100 rebate programs, I doubt anyone was surprised that people would try to scam a $100,000 rebate program.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

I only posted it here after it became public information vis a vis WoV. But I do admit to some vanity here. I haven't been in the types of casinos you guys play for almost 7 years. Everything is totally different here. But I was extremely confident that, with hundreds of different kinds of games available these days, someone would find a way to beat the cardreaders at Revel. And I was right. Whether they get the rebates is another question.

I was surprised that is was Ultimate X. I have no experience with that game as it was not out yet when I left Nevada. I know of at least two other games that will thwart the cardreader in a loss rebate. But I think I have to keep my mouth shut until about Christmas on it. I've always avoided totally underhanded tactics. But I'm not a big moralist about those that do. I don't want to wreck anybody's rebates.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "seedub49" <seedub49@...> wrote:

Being that there were already people scamming $100 rebate programs, I doubt anyone was surprised that people would try to scam a $100,000 rebate program.