vpFREE2 Forums

Random Cyclicality in Video Poker

#21

I'm really not sure if the machines are really random. Some times

I

have to wonder.

One of the most difficult concepts to understand is that random
events are not regular as many people believe. The only real way to
decide if the machines you're playing are random is to check your
results after a significant amount of play. I've done his for several
years and I'm comfortable that machines are REALLY random (or I'm
really lucky). My results are close to expected results.

If they are all random, it doesn't make any
difference if I change to another machine, for whatever reason.
I have played video poker since the mid 70's. I don't play

hunches.

I use all the mathematicaly correct plays. I seem to do quite well.

Then why are you unsure? Why would the casinos let you do "quite
well" with machines that are not random? Do you think other folks
playing poorer paytables are also doing well?
  

But I'm not sure if I believe everything IGT tells us.

What don't you believe?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobtry2000" <bobtry2000@...> wrote:

#22

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I saw a Singer column in the Gaming Today publication recently. It

was

filled with so much misleading information I'm surprised they

accept

his columns. He implies it's possible to "trick" VP machines. For
example, he says it's just OK to know a games strategy/return but

to be

a real winner you must ...then he gets vague, but leaves the

impression

it's easy to do. He's very skillful at that. I think his appeal

is to

people who don't want to work at VP ... the same people that will

pay

for a "fool proof system" to win the lottery.

On the other hand, there are all sorts of "systems" columnists
recommend, including astrology. So I guess there's room for

everyone

when it comes to gambling. It's best not to get too worked up over

it.

Singer has been doing this column for years. I suspect he is kept on
for the same reason Rosie is still on "The View". Even though their
claims are silly there are always a set of people who will listen to
anything that promotes conspiracy. It's all about circulation/ratings.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:

#23

> I'm really not sure if the machines are really random. Some

times

I
> have to wonder.

One of the most difficult concepts to understand is that random
events are not regular as many people believe. The only real way to
decide if the machines you're playing are random is to check your
results after a significant amount of play. I've done his for

several

years and I'm comfortable that machines are REALLY random (or I'm
really lucky). My results are close to expected results.

> If they are all random, it doesn't make any
> difference if I change to another machine, for whatever reason.
> I have played video poker since the mid 70's. I don't play
hunches.
> I use all the mathematicaly correct plays. I seem to do quite

well.

Then why are you unsure? Why would the casinos let you do "quite
well" with machines that are not random? Do you think other folks
playing poorer paytables are also doing well?
  
> But I'm not sure if I believe everything IGT tells us.

What don't you believe?

IGT also puts out machines that have Keno. Now one would assume that
they would use a RNG for Keno. A few years ago, the casino in
Montreal ran into a problem. Someone was hitting 10 out of 10 on a
regular basis. It turns out the casino was shutting the machines
down at night and when they started them up in the morning, they
started each day with the same seeds. Would this be an example of
random?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobtry2000" <bobtry2000@> wrote:

#24

It has nothing to do with random. As Gilbert indicated in another post
all RNGs are seeded with a value at start-up. The numbers generated
from that point on are always the same for the same seed. The term used
for these programs is pseudo-random and ALL gambling devices that use
RNGs actually use pseudo-RNGs. If you search the archives you should
find many references to pseudo-RNGs.

The Keno game programmer seeded the pRNG with the time. If the keno
game is retarted at exactly the same time (by another electronic
device) then the resulting sequence of numbers would be the same. Of
course, this works to the advantage of the alert player and really has
nothing to do with randomness. Today, the gaming manufacturers (and
security folks worried about secure transactions) understand these
types of problems and make every attempt to avoid them.

I suspect one of the reasons IGT changed to run their pRNG between deal
and draw was to reduce the potential of anyone zeroing in on the
current position in the random number sequence. Once again, this has
nothing to do with the randomness of the deals, but has to do with
eliminating hacks. Running the pRNG constantly is also for this purpose
and I would bet they also randomly reseed their pRNG fairly often.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobtry2000" <bobtry2000@...> wrote:

IGT also puts out machines that have Keno. Now one would assume that
they would use a RNG for Keno. A few years ago, the casino in
Montreal ran into a problem. Someone was hitting 10 out of 10 on a
regular basis. It turns out the casino was shutting the machines
down at night and when they started them up in the morning, they
started each day with the same seeds. Would this be an example of
random?

#25

Silly? Or, just wrong?

It would be good if we started asking this question. Valuing the pinions of others is fine, but
when an opinion is blatantly "wrong", there is a real problem in credibility.

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

Even though their
claims are silly there are always a set of people who will listen to
anything that promotes conspiracy.

#26

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...>
wrote:

Silly? Or, just wrong?

It would be good if we started asking this question. Valuing the

pinions of others is fine, but

when an opinion is blatantly "wrong", there is a real problem in

credibility.

I thought by using silly I was implying both wrong and ridiculous.

#27

Oxymoron or not, I think it's a good term to describe how often this subject pops up on the VP forums, with all the same points being made and all the same conclusions drawn.
In fact, JT has a theory that there really were no actual posters in this thread (except for this one), but it was simply generated by an IGT RCG (Random Cyclical Generator).
Or not...
Thanks,
Skip
www.vpplayer.com

Dan Paymar wrote:

···

"Random Cyclicality" is an oxymoron.

#28

Skip Hughes wrote:

Oxymoron or not, I think it's a good term to describe how often this
subject pops up on the VP forums ...

Closely anayzed, there's gotta be a lunar factor, Skip.

- H.

#29

After Lenny died they had trouble keeping a VP writer. I think I
remember Dancer and Paymar doing it for awhile but quit. One of them
said it was too much hassle coming up with something to write every
week. That's pretty much when the good VP advice ended.

Enter Rob Singer. At least the guy produces copy and stays with it.
That's about the only thing good you can say about his work.

Gaming Today is good for casino news. Casino openings, closings.
Gaming initiatives in other states, etc. That's about it.

As far a gambling advice, forget it! But Singer is not the worst. I
give that honor to Keno Lil.

The sports handicapping advice is useless. "Look for the Chargers to
roll." "The 49ers will get revenge." And the all-time number one used
but most useless advice in sports betting: Lay the points on the Jazz,
they've covered 4 out of their last five games."

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

Singer has been doing this column for years. I suspect he is kept on
for the same reason Rosie is still on "The View". Even though their
claims are silly there are always a set of people who will listen to
anything that promotes conspiracy. It's all about circulation/ratings.

#30

<smile> Well, there was a full moon on Monday, and there might even be a correlation with
Easter and the Easter Bunny since Easter always comes on the first Sunday after the first full
moon after the Vernal Equinox.

...and Happy Eatser to all...a bit early....LOL

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Skip Hughes wrote:
> Oxymoron or not, I think it's a good term to describe how often this
> subject pops up on the VP forums ...

Closely anayzed, there's gotta be a lunar factor, Skip.

- H.

#31

The grapevine rumor is that the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy
eloped to Reno where they were operating a 7/11 store. Most of
their income was derived from a lone 6/5DB machine, located in the
front of the store. All was going well til a player favorable
anomaly, in the machine, was detected by an AP, whose initals are
M.C. Mr. E. Bunny and Ms. T. Fairy can now be found on a Virgina
St. selling castoff stuffed animals from CC!

But, my question to you, bl, is what are you going to have for your
Eatser dinner? (o:
~Babe~

···

==========================================
In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...> wrote:

<smile> Well, there was a full moon on Monday, and there might
even be a correlation with Easter and the Easter Bunny since Easter
always comes on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the
Vernal Equinox.

...and Happy Eatser to all...a bit early....LOL
bl

#32

LOL, RCG that is just too funny!

Oxymoron or not, I think it's a good term to describe how often this
subject pops up on the VP forums, with all the same points being made
and all the same conclusions drawn.
In fact, JT has a theory that there really were no actual posters in
this thread (except for this one), but it was simply generated by an

IGT

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@...> wrote:

RCG (Random Cyclical Generator).
Or not...
Thanks,
Skip
www.vpplayer.com

#33

Actually, it's the first Sunday after the first ecclesiastical full
moon after the spring equinox. I have yet to discover the definition
of the ecclesiastical full moon, but it occasionally differs from the
date of the full moon. See:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html and
http://www.jdray.com/easter.html

···

<smile> Well, there was a full moon on Monday, and there might even be a correlation with
Easter and the Easter Bunny since Easter always comes on the first Sunday after the first full
moon after the Vernal Equinox.

...and Happy Eatser to all...a bit early....LOL

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Skip Hughes wrote:
> Oxymoron or not, I think it's a good term to describe how often this
> subject pops up on the VP forums ...

Closely anayzed, there's gotta be a lunar factor, Skip.

- H.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#34

I think Rosie being on the view is a great thing, Have you ever watched the view? Rosie does really great things for children that no celebrity does. She is a highly opinionated female witch is the purpose of the show. I am pretty sure Rosie has a huge following, and the only reason anyone would watch that show. When Rosie had her own show, it got great ratings and beat out Oprah on many awards.
   

Singer has been doing this column for years. I suspect he is kept on
for the same reason Rosie is still on "The View". Even though their
claims are silly there are always a set of people who will listen to
anything that promotes conspiracy. It's all about circulation/ratings.

After Lenny died they had trouble keeping a VP writer. I think I
remember Dancer and Paymar doing it for awhile but quit. One of them
said it was too much hassle coming up with something to write every
week. That's pretty much when the good VP advice ended.

Enter Rob Singer. At least the guy produces copy and stays with it.
That's about the only thing good you can say about his work.

Gaming Today is good for casino news. Casino openings, closings.
Gaming initiatives in other states, etc. That's about it.

As far a gambling advice, forget it! But Singer is not the worst. I
give that honor to Keno Lil.

The sports handicapping advice is useless. "Look for the Chargers to
roll." "The 49ers will get revenge." And the all-time number one used
but most useless advice in sports betting: Lay the points on the Jazz,
they've covered 4 out of their last five games."

···

mickeycrimm <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote:
          --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#35

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <thomasrrobertson@...>
wrote:

Actually, it's the first Sunday after the first ecclesiastical full
moon after the spring equinox. I have yet to discover the

definition

of the ecclesiastical full moon, but it occasionally differs from

the

date of the full moon. See:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html and
http://www.jdray.com/easter.html

><smile> Well, there was a full moon on Monday, and there might

even be a correlation with

>Easter and the Easter Bunny since Easter always comes on the first

Sunday after the first full

>moon after the Vernal Equinox.
>
>...and Happy Eatser to all...a bit early....LOL

First Sunday after the fourth full moon after Christmas is how the
plain folks tell it.

#36

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <thomasrrobertson@...>
wrote:

Actually, it's the first Sunday after the first ecclesiastical full
moon after the spring equinox. I have yet to discover the

definition

of the ecclesiastical full moon, but it occasionally differs from

the

date of the full moon. See:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html and
http://www.jdray.com/easter.html

><smile> Well, there was a full moon on Monday, and there might

even be a correlation with

>Easter and the Easter Bunny since Easter always comes on the first

Sunday after the first full

>moon after the Vernal Equinox.
>
>...and Happy Eatser to all...a bit early....LOL
>
>.....bl
>
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@>

wrote:

>>
>> Skip Hughes wrote:
>> > Oxymoron or not, I think it's a good term to describe how

often this

>> > subject pops up on the VP forums ...
>>
>> Closely anayzed, there's gotta be a lunar factor, Skip.
>>
>> - H.
>>
> In another year or so when I start this topic again, instead of

calling it Random Cyclicality in Video Poker, I'm going to call it
call it "Random streakiness in video Poker". Thanks Dan for that
word. That is a sincere Thanks. I must say I sure get a ton of
responses to my posts. Denny

···

>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

#37

I did "fat finger" that one, didn't I? <smile>

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

But, my question to you, bl, is what are you going to have for your
Eatser dinner? (o:
~Babe~

#38

Touche!

But, the less accurate definition is usually "good enough for government work". <smile>

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <thomasrrobertson@...> wrote:

Actually, it's the first Sunday after the first ecclesiastical full
moon after the spring equinox. I have yet to discover the definition
of the ecclesiastical full moon, but it occasionally differs from the
date of the full moon. See:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/easter.html and
http://www.jdray.com/easter.html

#39

I was the one who quit because of the weekly grind. (The editor made it plain that I shouldn't worry about the quality of the pieces, it was fine to just grind out copy of some kind, but I had a hard time with it.) There was also the issue of compensation - supposedly I had ad compensation but I never really saw it and never got any traffic from it. So there was not much incentive to continue. Finally, GT ticked me off with the way they handled a complaint from Matt Weatherford (of Cheapo Vegas fame) about one of their columnists allegedly plagiarizing a piece he wrote - word for word. Basically, it was "We're GT and you're nothing."

So we parted ways.

Thanks,
Skip
www.vpplayer.com
mickeycrimm wrote:

···

After Lenny died they had trouble keeping a VP writer. I think I
remember Dancer and Paymar doing it for awhile but quit. One of them
said it was too much hassle coming up with something to write every
week. That's pretty much when the good VP advice ended.

Enter Rob Singer. At least the guy produces copy and stays with it.
That's about the only thing good you can say about his work.