"If I managed a casino, I'd hang a sign outside saying "pros welcome."
Then I'd fire all my consultants. Then I'd wait for the pros to show
up and as soon as they sat down, I'd change what they were playing
until they left." 007
That is what is happening. The casinos are chumming the waters for the AP's inorder to exclude them leaving only players that the casino views as profitable.
True enough Frank but the problem, once again, is that the ploppies WILL NOT play obscure games like one eyed Jacks. Hell, even I won't play it.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Certainly this would raise the hold, but play would drop to nothing. This concept only works if we dance on the razor's edge of 100% and let errors account for all the hold.
I also find this dynamic enlightened. Play correctly make money. Play incorrectly lose money. Seems fair to me...of course what the hell do I know...I know I want a vacation, fishing sounds nice.
That is what is happening. The casinos are chumming the waters for the AP's inorder to exclude them leaving only players that the casino views as profitable.
They're missing the boat. This could be done so that all players are profitable, pro and rec players. The more the merrier.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "GilbertA" <gilrus47@...> wrote:
And there's always opportunity cost. What if a penny slot
machine would be more profitable than even the optimal progressive?
I wrote a reply last night to you but it is apparently lost in cyberspace.
In it I mentioned that I think causing ANY slot player to make a switch to video poker is tantamount to "player development". In the short term the penny slot may indeed be more profitable, but in the long run the casino would be better off with a video poker addict. Just my opinion.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:
In my experience, nothing draws a crowd like a crowd. Trying to take from Peter to pay Paul and the casino's cut is more social sciences.
There could be worse paytables on the end seats on the bank or sprinkled within the bank so someone would actually have to look and know the paytables to gain a better advantaged play. Easier games could have lower payback while driving the meter higher. Offer Keno on the machines that also pumps the progressive. Marketing signs and machine placement is also very important as well as comfort.
I doubt very much this would be an option but thought I would throw it out there. Optimal placement could be just outside the buffet entrance and changing the entrance from a standing line to a number calling system with a sign so they could play while waiting to be seated. The bank would have the side where the sign was not visible to the buffet with better paytables.
M doesn't want "decent" player oriented games like jacks or better, or the NSU deuces, or multiline anything.
They think they are going to attract a crowd with 2x points multipliers, and gift giveaways. On 3x point day the place was empty last time I was there. I was amazed. At South Point it is hard to find a machine on 2x point days. Not so with M.
They must be getting the response they want as the crowd is huge in the gift line.
The play for one free buffet per day is also a good idea for them.
It is a beautiful casino.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, jaycee5353@... wrote:
I thought we were looking for an idea that would serve both the player and the house.
-----Original Message-----
From: 007 <007@...>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 11:57 am
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobsOn Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:49:55 -0000, Bob Bartop wrote:
>--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, jaycee5353@ wrote:
>
>>
>> Here is another thought on the meter movement consept.
>> You could reduce the meter when the games go positive.
>> For example at $1800 the meter reduces by 80% for the
>> balance of time until hit.
>>
>>
>
>
>On these games it is more like $2700, not $1800.
>
>Anyway, I don't want to sound rude, but this is a lousy idea. Nothing personal. lolLOL indeed! You must be expressing a player's perspective. That's
the worst idea I've heard from my point of view, also, but if you
owned the M, would you regard it as a lousy idea? Barley's didn't
tolerate this arrangement for long. I can't imagine often having
$4500 quarter royals being optimal for them.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You don't really mean that, do you? The correct way to tighten a progressive is to reduce the paytable of the base game. Leave the meter progression alone, that's the bait to suck players in.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:
I don't think it will take them long to
realize that they can make more money by offering less meter
progression.
" At South Point it is hard to find a machine on 2x point days. "
I've noticed that the pro game of choice at SP on 2x points day is $1 10 play DDB quick quads ( 99.7 ). At $60 per pull, whats the expected
profit per hour ?
regards....Tom
I believe my suggestion is still misunderstood.
Only reduce meter AFTER jackpot has reached a subtantial postive level.
This would have the effect of keeping the sharp play while increasing the house hold.
-----Original Message-----
From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:
I don't think it will take them long to
realize that they can make more money by offering less meter
progression.
You don't really mean that, do you? The correct way to tighten a progressive is to reduce the paytable of the base game. Leave the meter progression alone, that's the bait to suck players in.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If I managed a casino, I'd hang a sign outside saying "pros welcome."
Then I'd fire all my consultants. Then I'd wait for the pros to show
up and as soon as they sat down, I'd change what they were playing
until they left.
You sir, forget one very important thing. Casino managers
are not intelligent enough to figure this out. In fact, I suspect
most of them would not understand why this is correct. On the whole, that is a good thing for us.
QZ
If I managed a casino, I'd hang a sign outside saying "pros welcome."
Then I'd fire all my consultants. Then I'd wait for the pros to show
up and as soon as they sat down, I'd change what they were playing
until they left.You sir, forget one very important thing. Casino managers
are not intelligent enough to figure this out. In fact, I suspect
most of them would not understand why this is correct. On the whole, that is a good thing for us.QZ
I see a casino making a mistake which isn't in the players' favor as a
sign that they'll also make a mistake in the players' favor.
I'm not sure what makes people think like that. Out of the many CM's I've talked to and got to know over the years, the majority of them are absolutely aware of everything that's going on or affecting their casinos.
Frank: What's the rationale behind removing SDB in favor of TDB? The strategy for SDB is a bit more difficult than TDB. If it's because of the number of special quads in SDB, that could easily be offset by the giant jackpots in TDB.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@...> wrote:
You sir, forget one very important thing. Casino managers
are not intelligent enough to figure this out. In fact, I suspect
most of them would not understand why this is correct. On the whole, that is a good thing for us.
This has ALREADY happened, multiple times. The pros hit a "good deal" and it is gone in a week.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@...> wrote:
> If I managed a casino, I'd hang a sign outside saying "pros welcome."
> Then I'd fire all my consultants. Then I'd wait for the pros to show
> up and as soon as they sat down, I'd change what they were playing
> until they left.You sir, forget one very important thing. Casino managers
are not intelligent enough to figure this out. In fact, I suspect
most of them would not understand why this is correct. On the whole, that is a good thing for us.QZ
SDB had been my personal favorite game on the bank. There is no version of SDB in the return range that was required to make the bank viable for the casino. I'm really sorry to see it go.
I'm going to be very busy the next few days, so let me just toss this out there and everyone can discuss it over the weekend.
Even though some pros were playing a lot when the Jackpots got very high, according to what I've been told, the larger factor to the banks return having to be downgraded was that EVERYONE that was playing it, even the non-pros, were simply playing too accurately.
There was a day when pros played very well and "citizens" played dreadfully. That day has apparently passed along with parachute pants and bell-bottom jeans.
Because of the overall improvement in VP strategy amongst the general population, high return VP may well and truly be a thing of the past.
This progressive design that required switching between eight different games had the best chance of being profitable for the casino as anything I've seen come out in the last 10 years.
The big teams might be dead, but there are now a plethora of intelligent VP playing individuals, at least capable of playing well enough that a 101% return progressive was break-even for the casino.
~FK
P.S. I'm not complaining in any way. I'm pleased that other people are playing better these days, even if it costs me money. I do not require that others must fail for me to succeed. It is an unfortunate dynamic of the industry that as more people play better the games will get worse. Kind of reminds me of natural selection.
Good luck all! Hay, I tried...sorry it didn't turn out better.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:
I'm not sure what makes people think like that. Out of the many CM's I've talked to and got to know over the years, the majority of them are absolutely aware of everything that's going on or affecting their casinos.
Frank: What's the rationale behind removing SDB in favor of TDB? The strategy for SDB is a bit more difficult than TDB. If it's because of the number of special quads in SDB, that could easily be offset by the giant jackpots in TDB.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "what7do7you7want" <what7do7you7want@> wrote:
> You sir, forget one very important thing. Casino managers
> are not intelligent enough to figure this out. In fact, I suspect
> most of them would not understand why this is correct. On the whole, that is a good thing for us.
I guarantee you the overall quality of play is STILL pretty bad, at the BARS. This is why I have stated that it is just such a natural to have progressive video poker at a bar. If you want so-called "ploppies" playing who will feed the appetites of the pros, you can rest assured a bar environment is conducive. What is the perfect setup for a bar environment? What is the optimal video poker setup for a bar? This field could be wide open. I think I'll write a book. I'll need to think of a pen name, though.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Even though some pros were playing a lot when the Jackpots got very high, according to what I've been told, the larger factor to the banks return having to be downgraded was that EVERYONE that was playing it, even the non-pros, were simply playing too accurately.
There was a day when pros played very well and "citizens" played dreadfully. That day has apparently passed along with parachute pants and bell-bottom jeans.
Because of the overall improvement in VP strategy amongst the general population, high return VP may well and truly be a thing of the past.
Excellent points. The black coffee crowd is not the bar top crowd. Maybe make a drink mandatory-have one of those portable breathalizers at the bar. That will scare of those killjoy black coffee drinkers with calculator souls!
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
---
I guarantee you the overall quality of play is STILL pretty bad, at the BARS. This is why I have stated that it is just such a natural to have progressive video poker at a bar. If you want so-called "ploppies" playing who will feed the appetites of the pros, you can rest assured a bar environment is conducive. What is the perfect setup for a bar environment? What is the optimal video poker setup for a bar? This field could be wide open. I think I'll write a book. I'll need to think of a pen name, though.
Heh, that's funny. Good idea, though!
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
Maybe make a drink mandatory-have one of those portable breathalizers at the bar.