Sorry, but most experienced VP players can easily play single line games @ 800-1000 hands per hour, depending on the speed of the machine.
Don the Dentist
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, James Thompson <jamesgthompson@...> wrote:
Single line maybe you could be accurate at 600.
I have a large volume sample to contribute, that should be VP related and on on topic. casino_travel originally wanted hard HPH numbers for VP players out there. I have a bunch...
700 hands an hour was our minimum requirement for a team player, 500 HPH, if you were brand new.
To pass the training program for our team, the last step was a 3 hour live-fire session with a manger watching every hand, and you could only make 1 small mistake an hour.
Our pass/fail rate was around 20%/80%, with only 1 in 5 making the grade.
We only had twelve 1000+ hands per hour players (The A Team), and they were paid extra. Our other 50+ players were B Team and slower.
A total of 600 people went through our training program.
Therefore, I believe that in a random sample of people, only about 2% can play 1000 HPH +, regardless of their time or effort. It's just not something everyone can do. This is pure opinion from what I've observed. Feel free to contradict me.
One factor that could skew my numbers is that we only hired people that did not play VP before we hired them. Keep in mind, vpFREE is far from a random sample, and is likely composed of people that either like or have aptitude for VP. If they didn't, they would not be on the forum.
Hope this answers your question.
Oh...BTW, I was dirt slow for my first six months and almost didn't make the grade, partly due to the fact I had never played cards.
Expect about two years of daily play to get up to 1000+ HPH speed. And never sacrifice accuracy for speed.
~FK
P.S. Could we do a Poll on everyones HPH?
Frank,
Most people are mediocre at most things. Its rare that someone becomes "world class" at anything. There are very few things that I excel at (for instance, I probably play at 600 hands an hour with no intention of getting faster - this is hobby and entertainment). I make excellent macaroni and cheese, am a bit above average at my day job 
When you say you regret becoming "world class" at something, it seems sad. Look at it this way. Many people would envy that kind of skill! In the past few years, I've lost my mother, my father and my cat and yet, I am probably happier than most people and I think that its perspective more than anything. I have NO regrets. It doesn't mean that I have not made bonehead mistakes, done things that I wish I didn't and that all in life if perfect. However, all those things have lead me to today, and changing any one thing, even small would have led me to a different "today" and I'm blissfully happy. Married for over 20 years to my best friend, have a good job, have a good life. I've got very little to be unhappy about.
Now, I know people who have it all and are miserably chasing what they don't have.
So the question is. Are you happy today? If so, then regrets and recriminations have no place. If not, figure out why and fix it
And hey, those kinda VP stats are amazing to me (whoohoo to you!) If it were me, I'd be patting myself on the back thinking I'm all that. Instead, I'll go back to my measly 600 hands per hour.
I gotta know, did you take bathroom breaks??
cam
Well first I applaud your choice to keep VP a hobby, I never had that choice, as I was working as a pro from day 1.
Second: yes I am happy now, but that is largely because I'm helping others and sharing my knowledge. When I horded it, the only thing it brought me was money, and no one to spend it on.
As to bathroom breaks, I can answer that exactly. I deliberately dehydrated to avoid breaks and only took 11 five min breaks in the 72 hour tournament. I treated it exactly like an Olympic event and I was going for the gold. I put winning before my health and comfort.
Recovery time was around 2 weeks.
It is also interesting to note that I did my tournaments drug free and apparently beat out the folks that were popping bennies, with ease. A lot of the other pros that did Marathon tournaments used chemical "enhancement", and I proved that this was a poor substitute for hard work and determination.
I'm quite proud of all that. It was just too much effort for too little gain. If you add up all the money I made on MTs it's less than I could have made in a single year as a Violinist.
It was absurdly safe. If I participated, I won. I did do a 24 hour MTs, took first place and only cleared $280. That was my worst result.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "camwellcam" <camwellcam@...> wrote:
Frank,
Most people are mediocre at most things. Its rare that someone becomes "world class" at anything. There are very few things that I excel at (for instance, I probably play at 600 hands an hour with no intention of getting faster - this is hobby and entertainment). I make excellent macaroni and cheese, am a bit above average at my day job
When you say you regret becoming "world class" at something, it seems sad. Look at it this way. Many people would envy that kind of skill! In the past few years, I've lost my mother, my father and my cat and yet, I am probably happier than most people and I think that its perspective more than anything. I have NO regrets. It doesn't mean that I have not made bonehead mistakes, done things that I wish I didn't and that all in life if perfect. However, all those things have lead me to today, and changing any one thing, even small would have led me to a different "today" and I'm blissfully happy. Married for over 20 years to my best friend, have a good job, have a good life. I've got very little to be unhappy about.
Now, I know people who have it all and are miserably chasing what they don't have.
So the question is. Are you happy today? If so, then regrets and recriminations have no place. If not, figure out why and fix it
And hey, those kinda VP stats are amazing to me (whoohoo to you!) If it were me, I'd be patting myself on the back thinking I'm all that. Instead, I'll go back to my measly 600 hands per hour.
I gotta know, did you take bathroom breaks??
cam
Well, first we got rid of Rob Singer and now we have this nonsense from Frank about 3000 hands per hour and dehydration and so forth. What a crock of you know what. If all of this is true, maybe Franks boss (the money man) of the team he "managed" can chime in and verify that all this is true.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Well first I applaud your choice to keep VP a hobby, I never had that choice, as I was working as a pro from day 1.
Second: yes I am happy now, but that is largely because I'm helping others and sharing my knowledge. When I horded it, the only thing it brought me was money, and no one to spend it on.
As to bathroom breaks, I can answer that exactly. I deliberately dehydrated to avoid breaks and only took 11 five min breaks in the 72 hour tournament. I treated it exactly like an Olympic event and I was going for the gold. I put winning before my health and comfort.
Recovery time was around 2 weeks.
It is also interesting to note that I did my tournaments drug free and apparently beat out the folks that were popping bennies, with ease. A lot of the other pros that did Marathon tournaments used chemical "enhancement", and I proved that this was a poor substitute for hard work and determination.
I'm quite proud of all that. It was just too much effort for too little gain. If you add up all the money I made on MTs it's less than I could have made in a single year as a Violinist.
It was absurdly safe. If I participated, I won. I did do a 24 hour MTs, took first place and only cleared $280. That was my worst result.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "camwellcam" <camwellcam@> wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> Most people are mediocre at most things. Its rare that someone becomes "world class" at anything. There are very few things that I excel at (for instance, I probably play at 600 hands an hour with no intention of getting faster - this is hobby and entertainment). I make excellent macaroni and cheese, am a bit above average at my day job
>
> When you say you regret becoming "world class" at something, it seems sad. Look at it this way. Many people would envy that kind of skill! In the past few years, I've lost my mother, my father and my cat and yet, I am probably happier than most people and I think that its perspective more than anything. I have NO regrets. It doesn't mean that I have not made bonehead mistakes, done things that I wish I didn't and that all in life if perfect. However, all those things have lead me to today, and changing any one thing, even small would have led me to a different "today" and I'm blissfully happy. Married for over 20 years to my best friend, have a good job, have a good life. I've got very little to be unhappy about.
>
> Now, I know people who have it all and are miserably chasing what they don't have.
>
> So the question is. Are you happy today? If so, then regrets and recriminations have no place. If not, figure out why and fix it
>
> And hey, those kinda VP stats are amazing to me (whoohoo to you!) If it were me, I'd be patting myself on the back thinking I'm all that. Instead, I'll go back to my measly 600 hands per hour.
>
> I gotta know, did you take bathroom breaks??
>
> cam
>
OK.
Compose a poll question that covers all of the HPH bases
and we'll do a poll.
vpFREE Administrator
On 5 Feb 2011 at 11:46, Frank wrote:
P.S. Could we do a Poll on everyones HPH?
Hi Frank that sounds very similar to pinball -- a person can get very good in 3-4 years, but to master the most subtle aspects and become world class would take most people about a decade (an additional six years). Have you ever tried pinball ? While not lucrative in any way,shape or form it is a lot of fun.
Cheers, Pinball1932
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
I have an addendum. You are correct in stating that quite a few can, and do play at 2000 per hour plus. What I think you might not be considering is that to increase that speed the remaining 10%, takes about 3-4 times as long as it took to get to the 90% marker.
It's a lot like the time required to become a soloist at the piano. Most people can get good enough for the bar-player level, in about 4 years, but in most cases it takes another 12 years to make it to the classical concert circuit as a soloist.
A good friend of mine in high school, named Henry Becker, was the best player in town when he got here at age sixteen, and intended to do another 8 years of study before starting his career.
Anyway, as I said before, I took me six years to reach my max speed, and I hope you are all smart enough not to make the same mistake I did and waste that much time on something no one really cares about.
This is the first time in 10 years it's even come up in conversation.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:If you have the hand eye coordination to play at that speed accurately, you should be a Tennis player or an astronaut, or something else and making Millions a year.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "seedub49" <seedub49@> wrote:Of course, I'm NOT saying that YOU couldn't have been any of those things, but I do know that playing well over 2000 hph accurately is not as difficult as that statement suggests. I know several people who can do it, and I'm sure they all would agree that it requires a much smaller and simpler skill-set than being a professional athlete, astronaut, etc... Now if you wanted to say that they could really kick-ass at first-person-shooter style video games, I'd probably agree that requires a much more similar skill-set. Maybe I'm over-estimating what it takes to be a professional athlete or astronaut, but I certainly believe you are over-estimating what it takes to play vp at that speed accurately.
>
> In response to the comment about how they could be making millions a year doing other things, that's certainly possible. But I think averaging well into six figures a year (some while averaging "part-time" hours) isn't exactly tragedy.
> >
> > Knowing this, and having nothing to show for my life but a few VP Jackpots and Tournament wins is a great sadness to me, and nothing to envy.
>
> I am very sorry to hear about the sadness you feel regarding this. Obviously, people derive their fulfillment in different ways, and it certainly sounds like this was not the right path for you. While I don't think I know anyone who would call vp as a profession fulfilling, the time and experiences that it allows for you to enjoy with your loved ones can be very fulfilling--as long as you've learned to balance quality of life with chasing after the next play.
>
Well I guess we need to distinguish between one & two machine players. It might interest you to know, since I've been playing two for so long, my single machine play speed has decreased significantly and it fatigues me much faster. The hand position is much more like playing the piano when you play two. I'm now a very average 1 machine player.
How about a separate poll for each.
1 Machine Players:
In a best case scenario, on a single 1 speed machine with simultaneous hold buttons, what is the fastest you can play without error, or at least miscue? This assumes an easy game, like 6/9 Job or 5/9 Deuces.
500-700
700-800
800-900
900-1000
1000-1050
1050-1100
1100-1150
1150-1200
1200-1250
1250-1300
1300-1350
1350-1400
1400+
________________________________________________________
Two machine players:
In a best case scenario, on two machines set to 1 speed, with simultaneous hold buttons, what is the fastest you can play without error, or at least miscue? This assumes an easy game, like 6/9 Job or 5/9 Deuces.
1100-1200
1200-1300
1300-1400
1400-1500
1500-1600
1600-1650
1650-1700
1700-1750
1750-1800
1800-1850
1850-1900
1900-1950
1950-2000
2000+
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:
On 5 Feb 2011 at 11:46, Frank wrote:
> P.S. Could we do a Poll on everyones HPH?
OK.
Compose a poll question that covers all of the HPH bases
and we'll do a poll.vpFREE Administrator
Frank, I believe you can create a proper poll by going to the forum website and chick on "Polls" on the left hand side.
Kurt
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
How about a separate poll for each.
1 Machine Players:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kingofkurtopia" <kingofkurtopia@...> wrote: Frank, I believe you can create a proper poll by going to the forum website and chick on "Polls" on the left hand side.
Oh I did not know that.
vpFREE use knowledge poll:
Do you understand how to create a poll? FK = NO
vpFREE members can access and vote in vpFREE polls, but
only administrators can create new polls.
vpFREE Administrator
On 7 Feb 2011 at 15:07, kingofkurtopia wrote:
Frank, I believe you can create a proper poll by going to the
forum website and chick on "Polls" on the left hand side.
Kurt
vpFREE members can access and vote in vpFREE polls, but
only administrators can create new polls.
Thanks for the info, I didn't realize that. I was only trying to help Frank out so he could get some feedback.
Kurt
AMEN............ from another person that just scans messages about once a week.
Finally a post on a video poker forum that
has something to do with video poker. I used to open my vpFREE mail folder everyday, now I'm lucky to do it once a week. We have 10,718 members with mostly nothing to say. If I assume correctly that most joined because of
interest in video poker, and they have become the silent majority, there is
no longer much material related to video poker being posted, so then just
what the hell are all you people still doing here. Can somebody please give
me a damn hallelujah and an amen to that.
->-- On Fri, 2/4/11, nudge51 <nudge51@cox.net> wrote:
Nudge
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I know this is from feb 4th, sorry for the late comment........but 2450 hands per hour?.....amazing frank!!........i think your new name has gotta be RAINMAN......i cant sniff a crummy 1000.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Since you asked...
My old hand speed record, on 10 coin hand feed deuces at Sam's Town, during a Marathon was 1180 an hour for 72 hours straight with no breaks.
On regular machines of Circe 1990 I averaged 1465 an hour for shorter times. Though I did play 1400 and hour for 24 hours straight on a Christmas promo.
I no longer try to play fast, so it's difficult to say I'm still the fastest. I not trying to be anymore, and there aren't the types of tournaments there used to be that made it worthwhile.
Just for fun I clocked 2450 hands per hour, for 8.5 hours, at the Palms on the .25c Deuces--a couple of years back. A friend playing next to me watched and said they saw no mistakes.
It is important to note that I never play so fast as to miscue at all. I average 1 miscue every 3 months.
Playing accurately is more important than playing quickly these days.
Please do not think, I think this is anything to be proud of. I'm constantly ashamed of the fact that I wasted my gifts on VP, when I could have been a world class musician. It was great folly, not fortune.
~The path one walks is at least as important as how one walks it.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bdhabm" <bdhabm@> wrote:
>
>
> there isn't a human alive or a single line machine made that one can put out 3000 hands per hour. even if it is possible, the error rate would be enormous.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
> >
> > Frank Kneeland claims to be the fastest in the world, and he has a few tournament wins to document that claim. Maybe he will tell us what his rate is? My guess is around 3000 per hour.
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>
Gosh, I thought this story had finally died out. Please keep in mind that was a few years ago...I'm old and slow now, and no longer try to play fast.
For most people trying to play too fast is a really great way to give up accuracy. To anyone reading this, please concentrate only on accuracy and let your speed increase naturally, it should never be a goal.
When I trained, it was to play in speed tournaments and I had a good reason to do so. That reason no longer exists. For me, playing really quick meant about an extra $60,000 a year.
Now, being a fast player just gets you noticed more by casinos and could actually cost a person money.
Cheers all,
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bishqqq" <bishqqq@...> wrote:
I know this is from feb 4th, sorry for the late comment........but 2450 hands per hour?.....amazing frank!!........i think your new name has gotta be RAINMAN......i cant sniff a crummy 1000.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Since you asked...
>
> My old hand speed record, on 10 coin hand feed deuces at Sam's Town, during a Marathon was 1180 an hour for 72 hours straight with no breaks.
>
> On regular machines of Circe 1990 I averaged 1465 an hour for shorter times. Though I did play 1400 and hour for 24 hours straight on a Christmas promo.
>
> I no longer try to play fast, so it's difficult to say I'm still the fastest. I not trying to be anymore, and there aren't the types of tournaments there used to be that made it worthwhile.
>
> Just for fun I clocked 2450 hands per hour, for 8.5 hours, at the Palms on the .25c Deuces--a couple of years back. A friend playing next to me watched and said they saw no mistakes.
>
> It is important to note that I never play so fast as to miscue at all. I average 1 miscue every 3 months.
>
> Playing accurately is more important than playing quickly these days.
>
> Please do not think, I think this is anything to be proud of. I'm constantly ashamed of the fact that I wasted my gifts on VP, when I could have been a world class musician. It was great folly, not fortune.
>
> ~The path one walks is at least as important as how one walks it.
>
> ~FK
>
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bdhabm" <bdhabm@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > there isn't a human alive or a single line machine made that one can put out 3000 hands per hour. even if it is possible, the error rate would be enormous.
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Frank Kneeland claims to be the fastest in the world, and he has a few tournament wins to document that claim. Maybe he will tell us what his rate is? My guess is around 3000 per hour.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>