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full moon

It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this one about
a year ago with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
something similar. As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to
rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does, prove it.

I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when a
fortunate result occurred. It was a much easier phrase than saying
"I'm so fortunate that this completely random outcome occurred while I
was sitting in this chair on this day and resulted in 4000 credits
being added to my on-screen tally".

I didn't (and don't) think that luck is something we can carry in our
pocket and pull out when we need it - but is instead just a convenient
term we use to describe an activity's result after-the-fact (even when
referring to someone or something as "lucky" aren't we really basing
that on some prior experience with said someone or something?).

The argument quickly degraded after that and a few months later that
poster quit the group in a huff over some other argument or arguments.

Soooo...all that to say this - I still believe that luck is just a
convenient term we use. I don't think I can carry a glob of it in my
pocket and I don't think it will help me when I really, really want to
hit a jackpot in the next 4 minutes. But if, 3 minutes later, a RF
lines up on my screen? Well, sure, I'll say that I was "lucky". I
won't be able to use the longer (more proper) "random result"
definition - I'll be too busy hyperventilating. :slight_smile:

- Fletch

···

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:41:17 -0000, rockofjello333 <rockofjello333@yahoo.com> wrote:

If you say that "luck" exists, I have to challenge you to define it.
The way that most people think of it is that it's some kind of
mysterious "force", like gravity or magnetism, that causes a person
to experience fortunate events. A person who is "lucky" has managed,
knowingly or unknowingly, to harness this force for a certain time.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

Jean Scott wrote:
> The more you study the "luckier" you will be.

I might question that, Jean (getting tiresome, huh? :wink:

If we look at luck in terms of jackpot wins, which is typically the
circumstance in which the term is invoked, then a skilled player

might

well be LESS "lucky" than someone winging it.

I'd expect most unskilled players to play harder for the royal flush
than optimal strategy would dictate, in which case they'd tend to be
"luckier".

Besides, the more your intelligent approach to play gives you added
edge, the less you have to rely upon luck to put you ahead.

I look at it differently--if you play with skill, you have a better
chance for "luck" to be a lady tonight. That's what I tell my wife,
who definitely believes in luck.

We are good friends, and we both live in Vegas, and we used to
gamble together a lot, and he still gambles, if you can call it
that, but only on sports and LIVE poker (in each he wagers sums that
make me a little frightened).

I suppose our views are the same on a lot of things, and we express
them similarly; that's one aspect of why we're friends. The
difference in attitude you might detect is that he has utterly,
completely sworn off VP, believing it to ba a) a fool's errand and
b) much less profitable than the lines of advantage play he's chosen
in any case. I continue to play, albeit at a much lower amount of
action than I (we) used to play.

A lot of what I say on this forum is an expression of strong
opinions that we both share. He spent almost three years in the grip
of a VP death spiral that only ended when he quit playing
altogether. And during that time, boy, did he ever get sick of
people telling him he was "just unlucky".

The mini-lottery analogy was actually used by David Sklansky in an
early magazine column. Have you seen any of his essays under the
theme of "Fighting Fuzzy Thinking"? He shares Kevin's and my
appalled disbelief that people make critical decisions based on
superstition.

for what it's worth, I'd say that what we do here on this board,
gathering data, constructing strategy tables, comparing notes, etc.
is the very antithesis of beliving in, and trusting to, luck.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:

Rock uses the exact same arguments regarding luck that Kevin did.
Another shocking coincidence.

George, I think the 2 of you were separated at birth. :wink:

>
> Isn't this a stupid way to think? Doesn't this smack of

witchcraft and alchemy and voodoo and superstition?

Again with the "stupid" word. Do you truly believe that

those that disagree with you are always stupid?

You're twisting what I said: those in question are not stupid for
disagreeing with me, but for believing in an outmoded and disproved
concept AND LETTING IT AFFECT THEIR DECISIONS. Someone who lived in
the year 1304 would not have been at all stupid in believing in luck
(or God); he would have taken the concept as a given, on a par with
the sun rising and setting. Now, however, we have the tools to live
rationally, but a dishearteningly small proportion of people do so.
I guess that's why casinos exist.

  I suppose the next thing you'll try to convince me of is that
Santa and the Easter Bunny do not exist.

Yes, indeed, they do exist, but due to economic hard times, Santa
moonlights five nights a week at Roberta's Taco Shop, and even so,
he can only afford to leave Happy Meal gift certificates or surplus
Beanie Babies ($3.79 each at Crazy Mike's Discount Liquidation) in
your stocking, so he's becoming irrelevant.

The Easter Bunny quit when someone pointed out to her that rabbits
don't actually lay eggs, chocolate ones or otherwise. She's now
working as a stipper at Crazy Horse where she makes tons of bucks
wiggling her cute pink nose at the customers.

Incidentally, neither Goerge Bush nor John Kerry actually exist,
either, but no one expected any gifts from either of them anyway,
so, no loss.

>

Here's my definition of luck:

"luck" is that psychological force that allows a human to believe

that

a bad outcome is not their fault and a positive outcome is the

result

of skill or otherwise deserved.

Is it rational? No.

Is it potent? Yes. Take a look at the "day trading" phenom during
the bubble. Legalized online gambling, with brokers getting the

rake.

People believing they had won by skill and going seriously postal

when

they lost, believing that their luck was rotten (or they were

cheated).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "busbyb" <busbyb@y...> wrote:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi busbyb (?)

I think you make a most salient point here. If one blames "bad
luck" on chance, and "good luck" on skill, there is an ever present
danger to one's vp bankroll.

My point is, that I attribute BOTH "good and bad luck", merely to
chance on any given day. I don't think that any sensible or
knowledgable vp player, with any amount of experience playing the
game, would ever believe that the incredibly "good luck" of drawing
a pat RF, is anything other than an really wonderful abberation.
Nor, do I think conversely, that sitting for hours (as we all have)
and essentially losing our butts (while consistenty drawing an
unsuited pup card to a RF4 draw) is anything more than a really
horrible abberation, which could turn better with the next hand.
It's while either of these abberations are taking place, that we
think of the terms "good or bad luck". For wont of a better
expression, other than "wonderful or horrible randomness", I guess
I will continue to think of the "luck" word.

I do think, that at least a grain of common sense must be applied to
any lucky/unlucky beliefs lurking in our sub-conscious, before
risking more hard-earned bankroll than was originally planned.

I think I'm talked out on this thread.

Nothing but GOOD LUCK to you all!

Babe

Luck is mathematical, here is the equation:

Luck = Variance

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"

<jackessiebabe@y...>

wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Rock,
>
> I usually agree with a lot of your posts, but I really think
you're
> off the mark with this one. I don't think that there is

anything

> about believing in "luck" that precludes someone from also
believing
> in science/math etc. I also don't think that luck has anything

to

> do with superstitious mumbo-jumbo. I truly believe that some
people
> are luckier than others, in gambling and in life.
>
I'm afraid that this is a notion that, while widely held, is
irrational and leads to people making all sorts of bad decisions.

If you say that "luck" exists, I have to challenge you to define

it.

The way that most people think of it is that it's some kind of
mysterious "force", like gravity or magnetism, that causes a

person

to experience fortunate events. A person who is "lucky" has

managed,

knowingly or unknowingly, to harness this force for a certain time.

Now, let's ignore the apparent absurdity of this premise, and take
it at face value. We have a lottery with ten million entrants, and
one winning ticket will be drawn. One person does indeed win. Was
that person "lucky"? In other words, did he have more of

the "mojo",

the "force", the "luck", than any other entrant, and this
supernatural force guided the computer selecting the winning

entry,

or the hand of the bejeweled babe reaching into the glass bowl or
manipulating the blower or whatever, and FORCED the selection of
the "lucky" person's entry? This is the "luck"-based explanation

of

why the "lucky" winner won.

OK, sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? But that's precisely what

you

believe in if you believe in "luck". A supernatural force that:
1. Attaches itself to s person for some indeterminate period of

time

2. During that time, manipulates events so that things like random
events, cards dealt, falling safes pushed aside, etc. occur to the
benefit of the "lucky" one
3. Said force is indeed both prescient and omniscient enough to

know

that the fortunate events caused are indeed fortunate in the long

run

It's like when I win three or four pots in a row at hold'em.
Everybody pulls into a shell and is afraid of me for the next
several hands. They ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the "luck spirit" (WHO
OBVIOUSLY KNOWS THE RULES OF HOLD'EM POKER) is manipulating the

deck

so that I get better cards!

Isn't this a stupid way to think? Doesn't this smack of witchcraft
and alchemy and voodoo and superstition? We pride ourselves on

being

rational in our daily lives and decisions. We send our kid to

Honor

Student Academy even though we have a STRONG feeling that Homer T.
Freed Memorial School down on Martin Luther King Blvd. would
be "luckier". We blow our paychecks on groceries and rent when the
lottery is RIGHT THERE next to the Slim Jims. Yet we still speak
of "luck" AS IF WERE A REAL PHENOMENON.

The reason that guy won the lottery is that SOMEONE HAD TO. Let's
use an example I've used in the past:

We have a game where 100 people each put $1 in a pot and sit in
chairs numbered 1-100. A corresponding number is drawn out of a

bowl

and the person sitting in that chair wins $100. Now, if we play

this

game 100 times, there will be several people who don't win at all;
there will also be several people who win twice or more. We will

say

that the losers were "unlucky" and that the winners were "lucky".
Does this have any real meaning? Was the "luck force" moving from
the "lucky" chair or person and manipulating the outcome of the
drawing? If #24 was drawn four times, does that mean that

the "luck"

fairy or spirit or force was dragging the hand of the picker

toward

the number 24 in the bowl? Or could it simply be that it's

extremely

unlikely that everyone playing would win EXACTLY ONCE, and

therefore

if someone wins twice or three times, it's because someone HAD to?

If we can all drop the idea that "some people are luckier than
others", we can assess events more rationally. In reality a

lifetime

is an insufficient sample size to determine whether someone has

good

or bad "luck". We say the lottery winner was "lucky". But how do

we

know whether his mother died when he was ten, his cat just got run
over by a truck, and for that matter one week after he cashes the
check he'll get struck and killed by lightning?

If you believe that someone is indeed "luckier" or "unluckier"

than

others, then you say that the force or influence or spirit you
call "luck" has found favor with that person and alters events so
that they occur to that person's benefit. This "luck" thing would
have to be pretty all-powerful and all-knowing, wouldn't it? No
wonder humans have spent so much time and effort trying to
propitiate it!

Perhaps the logical error is to assume that an unexpected result

is

CAUSED by someone or something. In reality, most of the time

strange

things just happen. Why? Because they do!

Now, this is an unsatisfying explanation in the extreme. It goes
against our instinctual nature, which is to observe events closely
and to try and perceive PATTERNS. Our ancestral ape-brains needed

to

be able to do this in order to survive on the savannah. The

devotees

in the racebooks poring over the meaningless statistics in the
Racing Form, looking for some tendency to take advantage of, are

no

different than the proto-human squatting high in a tree, observing
the movement of the game animals. Nonetheless, for some phenomena
there IS no apparent correlation; why was there flood this year

and

drought the next?. This, as noted before, is deeply unsatisfying,
and led man to create gods and the supernatural as a means of
supplying an explanation.

The reason, therefore, that you believe in "luck", (and that

people

believe in "God", or the numerous variations thereof), is that

your

brain is hardwired to seek explanations; to perceive patterns. In
reality, much of life IS truly random, and no pattern can be
perceived because no true pattern exists.

I play perfect VP and lose for eight straight days; a clueless LOL
sits down next to me, holds a single 10, and gets a royal. It's
tempting to ascribe this to some supernatural force ("luck!"). In
fact, because of the way your brain is wired, it's almost
irresistable to do so. But it's a snare and a delusion.

we would all probably be a lot more at peace with the world if we
could discard the concept of "luck" (we would also be a lot more

at

peace with the world if we discarded the related concept of "God",
but I won't go there); it's a pity that our hominid root-brains so
fiercely resist the idea.

> If this isn't luck, I guess I don't what luck is.
>
  However, the element of luck (certainly in the
> short-term, which is what interests me the most) plays a large
part in determining whether or not I leave the casino with a (O:

or

a O: on any given day.

Nope. Mathematics are what determines that. You lost $350 today
because that was one of the possible results of playing .25 VP for
four hours. You weren't "lucky" OR "unlucky". Sometime during the
sum of your lifetime playing sessions, this result HAD to occur.

The

fact that it occured on this particular day is simply an

expression

···

of randomness, NOT because the "luck" force or spirit or fairy
abandoned you that day.

Resist the urge to believe in the unreal, the irrational and the
supernatural!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

> >
> > Isn't this a stupid way to think? Doesn't this smack of
witchcraft and alchemy and voodoo and superstition?

Again with the "stupid" word. Do you truly believe that
> those that disagree with you are always stupid?
>
You're twisting what I said: those in question are not stupid for
disagreeing with me, but for believing in an outmoded and

disproved

concept

>>>>>There you go again, my friend, telling me that I'm STUPID
because I believe in what, YOU SAY, is is an "outmoded and disproved
concept".

AND LETTING IT AFFECT THEIR DECISIONS.

Who said anything about letting it affect decisions? If

you read the email I posted just prior to this one (where I
foolishly said I was done with this thread) I said that, believing
that you were "lucky" when drawing a RF, on a throwaway hand, should
NOT affect your decision to play or not to play further, that day,
or any day!

···

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I guess that's why casinos exist

I suppose you still visit them on occasion, do you not?

Whether or not you're feeling lucky? (-:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I suppose the next thing you'll try to convince me of is that
Santa and the Easter Bunny do not exist.

Yes, indeed, they do exist, but due to economic hard times, Santa
moonlights five nights a week at Roberta's Taco Shop, and even so,
he can only afford to leave Happy Meal gift certificates or

surplus

Beanie Babies ($3.79 each at Crazy Mike's Discount Liquidation) in
your stocking, so he's becoming irrelevant.

The Easter Bunny quit when someone pointed out to her that rabbits
don't actually lay eggs, chocolate ones or otherwise. She's now
working as a stipper at Crazy Horse where she makes tons of bucks
wiggling her cute pink nose at the customers.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Boy, am I relieved that you've retained your

great sense of humor despite all the inflammatory rhetoric in recent
postings. It's one of your best writing attributes, and I hope you
are always able to keep your sense of humor intact.

And, thank.......something......St. Something, perhaps?... that my
childhood buds are well, and living in LV. I will look them up the
next time I'm in town.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Incidentally, neither Goerge Bush nor John Kerry actually exist,
either, but no one expected any gifts from either of them anyway,
so, no loss.

I categorically refuse to engage in a

political debate with you!! Even though, I strongly suspect,
shudder....that we're voting the same way.

I hope you have LOTS OF LUCK in all you wish to accomplish.

              Babe

"rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

The reason, therefore, that you believe in "luck", (and that people
believe in "God", or the numerous variations thereof), is that your
brain is hardwired to seek explanations; to perceive patterns. In
reality, much of life IS truly random, and no pattern can be
perceived because no true pattern exists.

To say something is "random" means that we can perceive no pattern in
it. We can see for ourselves that in much of life, we can't perceive
a pattern, we can't understand the past, we can't predict the future.
There are some very basic questions ("What am I?" "When you die,
where do you go?") for which we simply don't know the answer.

So: to say much of life is truly random is exactly the same as saying
we can't see a pattern. But to say that no true pattern exists
is something else entirely; it's nothing but speculation, no less so
than a belief in luck or God or whatever.

Not that I'm against speculation. It can be great entertainment. But
once the clear truth is perceived ("in much of life, we can't
perceive any pattern"), it's worth asking why one would want to
descend into dogma by making the unprovable assertion that no pattern
exists.

Stuart (RandomStu)

Hi Paul,

I didn't (and couldn't) put it better myself. Thanks for your
imput. I agree with you 100%.

         Babe

It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this one

about

a year ago with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
something similar. As I recall he was proposing a similar

argument to

rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does, prove it.

I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when a
fortunate result occurred. It was a much easier phrase than saying
"I'm so fortunate that this completely random outcome occurred

while I

was sitting in this chair on this day and resulted in 4000 credits
being added to my on-screen tally".

I didn't (and don't) think that luck is something we can carry in

our

pocket and pull out when we need it - but is instead just a

convenient

term we use to describe an activity's result after-the-fact (even

when

referring to someone or something as "lucky" aren't we really

basing

that on some prior experience with said someone or something?).

The argument quickly degraded after that and a few months later

that

poster quit the group in a huff over some other argument or

arguments.

Soooo...all that to say this - I still believe that luck is just a
convenient term we use. I don't think I can carry a glob of it in

my

pocket and I don't think it will help me when I really, really

want to

hit a jackpot in the next 4 minutes. But if, 3 minutes later, a RF
lines up on my screen? Well, sure, I'll say that I was "lucky". I
won't be able to use the longer (more proper) "random result"
definition - I'll be too busy hyperventilating. :slight_smile:

- Fletch

>
> If you say that "luck" exists, I have to challenge you to define

it.

> The way that most people think of it is that it's some kind of
> mysterious "force", like gravity or magnetism, that causes a

person

> to experience fortunate events. A person who is "lucky" has

managed,

> knowingly or unknowingly, to harness this force for a certain

time.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g...> wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:41:17 -0000, rockofjello333 > <rockofjello333@y...> wrote:
>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Jim,

Thanks for your response. O.K ! I can live with "the wonderful
side of randomness" instead of "good luck" and the "bad side of
randomness" instead of "bad luck". I think we're talking semantics
here. We are both in agreement that math/strategy/practice etc. all
count, over the long term. I also happen to believe that the "WSOR"
(or luck) count heavily in the short term. There is NOTHING eerie
or superstitious about this either. I think superstition is an
entirely different subject (on which I've posted before) and has
nothing whatever to do with believing in luck.....oops...the WSOR.

I hope you are finding the WSOR instead of the BSOR. most of the
time. Anyway, don't lose that lucky penny !

                 Babe

You are probably correct that we are just saying the same thing in a
different way. I just personally dont like the term 'luck' because I
believe that any 2 people with the same skill level (hopefully nearly
100%) over time will yield the same results, so neither is luckier
than the other even though each will have different results on each
session. I have a friend that chooses not to study VP and plays by
the seat of his pants (like most) and he thinks I am very lucky. I
believe that I started getting 'luckier' when I started studying and
practicing on training software, that may be my cause for not likeing
the use of 'luck' because I believe luck has nothing to do with my
results, just skill and randomness. I hope you recieve plenty of
'WSOR' also.

Jim

It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this one

about

a year ago ( mesg # 15245 april 03)

with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or

something similar. (close)

As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to

rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does, prove it.

(???)
(short term all luck
{long term all skill was the entire messg )

I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when a
fortunate result occurred.

( you did? per the thread your comment & your name does not exist or
did you respond under another name?)

It was a much easier phrase than saying

"I'm so fortunate that this completely random outcome occurred

while I

was sitting in this chair on this day and resulted in 4000 credits
being added to my on-screen tally".

( If you kept 3 to a royal & toss a small pair thats skill, If you
kept an ace ten & threw away a small pair THATS luck)

I didn't (and don't) think that luck is something we can carry in

our pocket and pull out when we need it
( try a stratergy card,works better)

- but is instead just a convenient term we use to describe an
activity's result after-the-fact (even when referring to someone or
something as "lucky" aren't we really basing that on some prior
experience with said someone or something?).

The argument quickly degraded after that

( it did??? please go back & read thread, might refresh your memory )

and a few months later that poster quit the group in a huff over
some other argument or arguments.
( ROFL ,You dont read this group very much or well if you thought i
quit posting )

Soooo...all that to say this - I still believe that luck is just a
convenient term we use. I don't think I can carry a glob of it in

my

pocket and I don't think it will help me when I really, really want

to

hit a jackpot in the next 4 minutes. But if, 3 minutes later, a RF
lines up on my screen? Well, sure, I'll say that I was "lucky".

(not me, i played correctly in order to last long enough to get the
draw)
   I won't be able to use the longer (more proper) "random result"

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g...> wrote:

definition - I'll be too busy hyperventilating. :slight_smile:

- Fletch

(You have my sympathy, memory seems to be first to go ; ) )

.M J Perry
>

>
> It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this one
about
> a year ago ( mesg # 15245 april 03)
with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
> something similar. (close)
As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to
> rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does, prove it.
(???)
(short term all luck
{long term all skill was the entire messg )
>
> I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when a
> fortunate result occurred.
( you did? per the thread your comment & your name does not exist

or

did you respond under another name?)

   <snip>
>
> (You have my sympathy, memory seems to be first to go ; ) )
>
> .M J Perry

I think that Paul has this poster (mklpryy24)

confused with the infamous "Kevin" (mkl5421). I doubt he intended
any flaming, or even sarcasm. Why then, must his post be met with
such an umpleasant response. Is it not possible, on this board, to
correct someone's mistake without attacking them personally?

Come on, guys, play nice!

                  Babe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g...> wrote:

> >

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

>
> >
> > It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this

one

> about
> > a year ago ( mesg # 15245 april 03)
> with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
> > something similar. (close)
> As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to
> > rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does, prove

it.

> (???)
> (short term all luck
> {long term all skill was the entire messg )
> >
> > I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when a
> > fortunate result occurred.
> ( you did? per the thread your comment & your name does not

exist

or
> did you respond under another name?)
>
> <snip>
> >
> > (You have my sympathy, memory seems to be first to go ; ) )
> >
> > .M J Perry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think that Paul has this poster (mklpryy24)
confused with the infamous "Kevin" (mkl5421). I doubt he intended
any flaming, or even sarcasm. Why then, must his post be met with
such an umpleasant response. Is it not possible, on this board, to
correct someone's mistake without attacking them personally?

Come on, guys, play nice!

                  Babe
Quit tryin to be moderator plz!!

Could you plz post somthin worthwhile
You make a lotta noise, WHY???
If you dont like what i say to sombody else, mind your own bussines
has nothin to do with you,
M J Perry

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y...> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g...> wrote:

> > >

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"

<jackessiebabe@y...>

wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y...>

wrote:

> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g...>

wrote:

> > >
> > > It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this
one
> > about
> > > a year ago ( mesg # 15245 april 03)
> > with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
> > > something similar. (close)
> > As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to
> > > rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does,

prove

it.
> > (???)
> > (short term all luck
> > {long term all skill was the entire messg )
> > >
> > > I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when

a

> > > fortunate result occurred.
> > ( you did? per the thread your comment & your name does not
exist
> or
> > did you respond under another name?)
> >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > (You have my sympathy, memory seems to be first to go ; ) )
> > >
> > > .M J Perry
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think that Paul has this poster (mklpryy24)
> confused with the infamous "Kevin" (mkl5421). I doubt he

intended

> any flaming, or even sarcasm. Why then, must his post be met

with

> such an umpleasant response. Is it not possible, on this board,

to

> correct someone's mistake without attacking them personally?
>
> Come on, guys, play nice!
>
> Babe
> Quit tryin to be moderator plz!!
Could you plz post somthin worthwhile
You make a lotta noise, WHY???
If you dont like what i say to sombody else, mind your own bussines
has nothin to do with you,
M J Perry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can only assume that you've been on

the "Wrong Side Of Randomness" for so long thst it's made you cranky.
Too bad!

I also didn't realize that I needed YOUR permission to respond to an
email posted openly on this board. If you feel that your,
very "worthwhile" posts should only be answered by those lucky
people to whom you are responding, and you are adverse to anyone
else posting a response, why don't you use private email?

You have my sympathy. Good manners go even before memory!

                 Babe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y...> wrote:

> > > >

Any post, or reply to a post, that contains negative,
personal comments is off-limits on vpFREE.

Use private email or FREEvpFREE instead.

Also, It's possible, and much more effective, to express
criticism (if you must) in an objective, non-personal
manner.

Please help make life more pleasant for everyone by
practicing politeness and restraint.

vpFREE Administrator

Babe - You're absolutely right. I was referring to a thread started
by "mkl54321" but got the username confused with "mklpryy24".

MJ Perry - Assuming "MJ" isn't short for "Kevin" and you're not the
same person, then of course I apologize. :slight_smile: I was referring to those
posts from memory, which is why I included the disclaimer "or
something similar", and I'm sure you can see how the two nicknames
could be easily confused. I'll take your other comments in stride,
since it was my error that prompted them.

The thread from my reference began with post #18153, 7/16/03. I had
no recollection of the prior, similarly-themed thread. (And how
strange that there even was a prior, similar thread to add to the
confusion? Was that just an odd coincidence or...my "bad luck"?)
:wink:

As far as responding under another name - well, I do have a new email
address now. In fact, it's this GMail account and I have 6 invites.
If anyone would like one, just drop me a line. :slight_smile:

- Fletch

···

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:30:56 -0000, mklpryy24 <mklpryy24@yahoo.com> wrote:

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y…>
wrote:
>
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y…> wrote:
> >
> > — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g…> wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to this
one
> > about
> > > a year ago ( mesg # 15245 april 03)
> > with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
> > > something similar. (close)
> > As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to
> > > rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does, prove
it.
> > (???)
> > (short term all luck
> > {long term all skill was the entire messg )
> > >
> > > I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used when a
> > > fortunate result occurred.
> > ( you did? per the thread your comment & your name does not
exist
> or
> > did you respond under another name?)
> >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > (You have my sympathy, memory seems to be first to go ; ) )
> > >
> > > .M J Perry
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think that Paul has this poster (mklpryy24)
> confused with the infamous "Kevin" (mkl5421). I doubt he intended
> any flaming, or even sarcasm. Why then, must his post be met with
> such an umpleasant response. Is it not possible, on this board, to
> correct someone's mistake without attacking them personally?
>
> Come on, guys, play nice!
>
> Babe
> Quit tryin to be moderator plz!!
Could you plz post somthin worthwhile
You make a lotta noise, WHY???
If you dont like what i say to sombody else, mind your own bussines
has nothin to do with you,
M J Perry

Babe - You're absolutely right. I was referring to a thread

started

by "mkl54321" but got the username confused with "mklpryy24".

MJ Perry - Assuming "MJ" isn't short for "Kevin" and you're not the
same person, then of course I apologize. :slight_smile: I was referring to

those

posts from memory, which is why I included the disclaimer "or
something similar", and I'm sure you can see how the two nicknames
could be easily confused. I'll take your other comments in stride,
since it was my error that prompted them.

The thread from my reference began with post #18153, 7/16/03. I

had

no recollection of the prior, similarly-themed thread. (And how
strange that there even was a prior, similar thread to add to the
confusion? Was that just an odd coincidence or...my "bad

luck"?)

:wink:

As far as responding under another name - well, I do have a new

email

address now. In fact, it's this GMail account and I have 6

invites.

If anyone would like one, just drop me a line. :slight_smile:

- Fletch

Hi Fletch,

I'm glad the confusion is now cleared up.
I guess I stepped on MJ Perry's toes by sticking my 2 cents worth
into the discussion, and was promptly chastised.
I apologize to anyone who was offended.
Best of luck...oops..."wonderful-side-of randomness" to you and the
rest of the board.
           Babe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Paul Smith <psmith2112@g...> wrote:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@y...>

wrote: wrote:

> > > >
> > > > It seems like I jumped in on a very similar argument to

this

> one
> > > about
> > > > a year ago ( mesg # 15245 april 03)
> > > with someone who posted under a name like "mklprryyy" or
> > > > something similar. (close)
> > > As I recall he was proposing a similar argument to
> > > > rock's - "luck" doesn't exist and if you think it does,

prove

> it.
> > > (???)
> > > (short term all luck
> > > {long term all skill was the entire messg )
> > > >
> > > > I responded that (to me) luck was just the term we used

when a

> > > > fortunate result occurred.
> > > ( you did? per the thread your comment & your name does not
> exist
> > or
> > > did you respond under another name?)
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > (You have my sympathy, memory seems to be first to go ; ) )
> > > >
> > > > .M J Perry
> >
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think that Paul has this poster (mklpryy24)
> > confused with the infamous "Kevin" (mkl5421). I doubt he

intended

> > any flaming, or even sarcasm. Why then, must his post be met

with

> > such an umpleasant response. Is it not possible, on this

board, to

> > correct someone's mistake without attacking them personally?
> >
> > Come on, guys, play nice!
> >
> > Babe
> > Quit tryin to be moderator plz!!
> Could you plz post somthin worthwhile
> You make a lotta noise, WHY???
> If you dont like what i say to sombody else, mind your own

bussines

> has nothin to do with you,
> M J Perry
>