vpFREE2 Forums

Calculation of Risk of Loss

<<The very smartest most learned people are unable to prove
that short term probablities cannot be exploited. They may be
correct when they say it, but they cannot prove it mathematically.
At least I have found nothing yet in the literature that proves it
and no one can give me a reference that proves it.>>

That's because short-term results CAN be exploited. But to exploit them, you
need to do something other than go home and come back. You need some kind of
added value to quitting at a particular win or loss point.

Cogno

Thanks for the info.
How far is the Marina from the other HET places?

Thanks
JAS

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "akole219" <scanner219@netzero.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Need AC info

Ceasars & Ballys are next to each other mid boardwalk. Showboat is
about 5 blocks from them. Harrahs is in the marina. I prefer Harrahs
first, Showboat, Ballys & then Ceasars.--- In
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "snow" <jsfs@...> wrote:
>
> I've never been to AC but am thinking of going on a HET offer.
> Which of the 4 HET properties do you recommend? Are they within
walking
> distance from each other?
>
> Thanks
> JAS
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

About a 7-10 minute drive.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "snow" <jsfs@...> wrote:

Thanks for the info.
How far is the Marina from the other HET places?

Thanks
JAS

Hi Danton

Here's how I would figure your situation for JOB. First I would
estimate the loss rate for playing and waiting for Roy and SF. I would
quickly guess loss would be about 2 1/2% of $$ cycled through. So a
$1000 worth of action would cost you about $25 if you don't catch a
ROY or SF. Then I would figure a loss of about 6% while waiting for a
4KD. In 200 hands you have an "ok' chance of drawing one; probably
not though. That part of the loss, without a 4kd would be $60. So a
$1000 worth of play would cost you about $85. However, if you miss one
full house and one flush and one straight your out another 100 bucks.
So I would guess, in a very non rocket scientist way, your exposed to
$200 loss in a $1000 worth of play action. But, as the weather man or
the risk of ruin calculaters say, there is a slim chance you might
lose more.

On JOB I'd calculate this way for longer term play. Costs per hour @
500 games hour, while waiting for 4kds and royal.

$1 while waiting for quads....per-hr$212
$1 getting your share of quads.per-hr$63

$5 While waiting for quads...per-hr$1000
$5 getting you share of quads.per-hr$320

The four of a kind is important in JOB. They come up about every 425
hands. If your not getting your share of them; it's off to the showers
when working on a short bankroll. As some have suggested, make extra
time to play 4 times more at quarter play and have more fun playing
and less chance losing. The $63 and $320 cost per hr, if getting your
share of quads, ignores the SF catches. If your getting your share of
straight flushes, in longe term play, then that number goes down
by .5%.

I think I got this right. However, if someone has some additions they
might want to reply.

Cheers and good luck.....Jeep

Hello,

I am considering some short term play above my normal limits to

qualify

for some promotions, but I would like some help calculating the

range

of my exposure to loss. For example, playing 9/6 JoB at $1, is there

a

calculator that can tell me the range of possible outcomes for a

given

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Danton" <dabesq@...> wrote:

number of hands? Say I play 200 hands, what does the distribution of
possible net results look like?

Thanks!

If you will not have a car, Harrahs runs a shuttle between their
properties and also there are Jitneys that run between all A/C
properties. The Harrahs shuttle is free with a Total Rewards card. I
believe the Jitney is $2. Time of travel between Caesars/Ballys and
Showboat at the end of the Boardwalk or Harrahs at the Marina is
highly dependent on traffic signals. Either trip should occur in 10
to 15 minutes max with a quicker trip quite possible.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "snow" <jsfs@...> wrote:

Thanks for the info.
How far is the Marina from the other HET places?

Thanks
JAS

Ok...

1) The probility distribution for a single hand of video poker is NOT NORMAL. Moreover, it
is discrete (non-continuous) function that does not approximate a sampled (descritized)
normal distribution. The PDF is not symetric about the mean or mode. Indeed, its mean
(simple arithmetric average) is always larget than the mode (most likely value, or peak)
becuase of the heavy positve tail (RF's!).

2) The result of a "session" is the sum of the outcomes of the hands that make up the
session. Given the PDF of a single hand-- which is known perfectly (assuming you play a
fixed strategy, etc) and the number of hands, and any constraing on bankroll-- one can
compute the PDF for a session (consisting of said number of hands). The central limit
theorm holds for this PDF (since its values are assembled from the SUM of indiviudal hands
that have FINITE, though skewed PDF's themselves). The CLT does not say that the session
PDF becomes normal eveywhere. Instead, it says that in the "central reegion", the PDF
becomes normal. This central region also looks symettric, with the mean and the mode all
lining up (almost) as they should for a normal distribution. Outside the "central region",
the PDF in NOT NORMAL. As the number of hands increases, the "area" of the central
region compared to the "tails" increases-- and one might as well say that the whole thing
is normal. NOTE: this stuff is all about the computed distribution for a session.

3) If you take your session results and assemble a PDF, you may or may not get something
that looks like a desritized version of a normal distribution. Most likely, your results will
sample the meat of the PDF-- that is you won't get a really really big win or loss. So your
curve would look more normal-like that it really is-- simple because you don't have
enough data-- nor could you ever get enough data.

4) To understand how non-normal random numbers when ADDED up turn into something
normal, you can do some easy experiments.... You can do this on your PC or even with a
dice. BAscially generate a set of random numbers with an even distribution (the kind of
number you get from a single die). Note the mean and variance of the set of humbers.
Then create a new set of numbers by adding a certain number of the original random
numbers. For example, you generate a list of 1000 random numbers... call them X's. Now
generate a list of Y's by adding together four X's to create 1 Y ( you can average them also
by dividing by 4 if you want). Now compute the mean an variance again. If you divided
them all by 4, you will find that the mean stayed the same, but the variance SHRUNK!
Moreover, if you plot the distribution, you would see it is startin gto look normal! Woo-
hoo. BTW, you can do this experiment as a function of the number of X's you add up.
While the orihinal x's have a flat-ebven distribution, as you add them up, you get a
triangle distribution, then something more normal, and ultimately, a single peak!

BTW, there are a lot of demos on the web of this. Here is one for dice. http://
www.stat.sc.edu/~west/javahtml/CLT.html
In this case, 1 dice = X's
2 dice = Y = x +x
3 dice = Y = x +x +x
They didn't divide by the number of dice (x's) so the mean moves... but the effect is the
same.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@...> wrote:

My point is I do not see how a session can generate a distribution.

  A session to me would generate a single data to be put into a
distibution of sessions of a given hand size.

This distribution would then be able to be analyzed for mean, mode,
variance, skewness, shape, and etc.

So, that is why I keep asking: How can A large number of hand
session approach normal.

I have only stayed at Harrah's at the marina, but I really liked it. I
had a car, so I could drive between the properties. The walk between
the properties on the Boardwalk is farther than it seems, but half the
fun of AC is walking along the Boardwalk. And you can either take the
free shuttle or ride the jitney. The advantage of the jitney is that
it runs much more frequently than the shuttle.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "snow" <jsfs@...> wrote:

I've never been to AC but am thinking of going on a HET offer.
Which of the 4 HET properties do you recommend?

Ok...

Re: Calculation of Risk of Loss

Ok...

1) The probility distribution for a single hand of video poker is

NOT NORMAL. Moreover, it

is discrete (non-continuous) function that does not approximate a

sampled (descritized)

normal distribution. The PDF is not symetric about the mean or

mode. Indeed, its mean

(simple arithmetric average) is always larget than the mode (most

likely value, or peak)

becuase of the heavy positve tail (RF's!).

Agree

2) The result of a "session" is the sum of the outcomes of the

hands that make up the

session. Given the PDF of a single hand-- which is known perfectly

(assuming you play a

fixed strategy, etc) and the number of hands, and any constraing on

bankroll-- one can

compute the PDF for a session (consisting of said number of

hands). The central limit

theorm holds for this PDF (since its values are assembled from the

SUM of indiviudal hands

that have FINITE, though skewed PDF's themselves). The CLT does

not say that the session

PDF becomes normal eveywhere. Instead, it says that in

the "central reegion", the PDF

becomes normal. This central region also looks symettric, with the

mean and the mode all

lining up (almost) as they should for a normal distribution.

Outside the "central region",

the PDF in NOT NORMAL. As the number of hands increases,

the "area" of the central

region compared to the "tails" increases-- and one might as well

say that the whole thing

is normal.

NOTE: this stuff is all about the computed

distribution for a session.

Not sure what you mean by that last sentence

I would have thoght the distribution of hands would be very skewed
with a high concentration around the lower paying hands (I further
think the highest concentration would be around no payback at all)
and way out on the right side would be the royal.

3) If you take your session results and assemble a PDF, you may or
may not get something

that looks like a desritized version of a normal distribution.

Most likely, your results will

sample the meat of the PDF-- that is you won't get a really really

big win or loss. So your

curve would look more normal-like that it really is-- simple

because you don't have

enough data-- nor could you ever get enough data.

If I define a session as 1000 hands, seems like I could get quite a
bit of data over a fairly short period of time.

4) To understand how non-normal random numbers when ADDED up turn

into something

normal, you can do some easy experiments.... You can do this on

your PC or even with a

dice. BAscially generate a set of random numbers with an even

distribution (the kind of

number you get from a single die). Note the mean and variance of

the set of humbers.

Then create a new set of numbers by adding a certain number of the

original random

numbers. For example, you generate a list of 1000 random

numbers... call them X's. Now

generate a list of Y's by adding together four X's to create 1 Y (

you can average them also

by dividing by 4 if you want). Now compute the mean an variance

again. If you divided

them all by 4, you will find that the mean stayed the same, but the

variance SHRUNK!

Moreover, if you plot the distribution, you would see it is startin

gto look normal! Woo-

hoo. BTW, you can do this experiment as a function of the number

of X's you add up.

While the orihinal x's have a flat-ebven distribution, as you add

them up, you get a

triangle distribution, then something more normal, and ultimately,

a single peak!

BTW, there are a lot of demos on the web of this. Here is one for

dice. http://

www.stat.sc.edu/~west/javahtml/CLT.html
In this case, 1 dice = X's
2 dice = Y = x +x
3 dice = Y = x +x +x
They didn't divide by the number of dice (x's) so the mean moves...

but the effect is the

same.

I feel that I understand the CLT, but plotting the outcomes of a
session, to me is a plot of individuals and not a plot of samples be
they sums, differences, averages etc of the parent distribution.

I agree if I were sampling by combining/adding/averaging (for
example every 25 hands) of the individual outcomes, then the
distribution would start to look more normal. However, I repeat it
seems to me a distribution of a session (whether the session is 1000
hands or 1 million hands) would represent 1000 or 1 million or what
ever defines a session data points and thus would look like the
expected probabilities per the various outcome, which would
decidedly be non-normal.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <vpfree_digests@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <vpfree_digests@...> wrote:

cdfsrule wrote:

1) The probility distribution for a single hand of video poker is

NOT NORMAL ...

Just a note to compliment you on a very nice survey of the question
posed ... of course, one that was tossed right up your alley :wink:

- H.

The bank of (6) $2/$5/$10/$25 JW2/NSU/JoB machines in high-limit are MIA. A new bank of $1/$2/$5 machines are there but with nothing playable.
   
  I asked around and was told that the old bank was removed by the new management over some protest and was not relocated elsewhere in the casino. So this means that there are no 99% games available above $1 at the Stratosphere that I am aware of.
   
  JD

···

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